Brantford, Niagara comp info

Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, etc.

Moderator:BBQTalk Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Porky
Chicken Choker
Posts:230
Joined:Thu May 18, 2006 3:01 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Brantford
Contact:
Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Porky » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:57 am

The event info and applications are finalized and available at either www.Strodes.ca or www.Brantfordbarbecue.ca or by PMing me, (there are 5 sheets).

Anyone unsure of what to expect will be happy to see we are doing an informal information session on Saturday April 25 at Strodes BBQ in Brantford. Kinda like a rib cooking class with no charge, and emphasis on what judges may be looking for, what to expect at an amateur event.
that's not my tan, it's bark.

www.brantfordbarbecue.com

reg
Runner
Posts:104
Joined:Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 am
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls Ont

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by reg » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:14 am

" emphasis on what judges may be looking for "

can you tell me who explains to the judges on what to look for ? this has always been a thorn in my a$$. even though it is just a am event why can't they just cook the ribs and let the judges choose what they like the best. setting standards for BBQ should be a no no whether amature or the so called 'pro' class.

if you all want to keep BBQ in the 60's and 70's then tell the judges what to look for, other wise let the judges choose what they like!

reg

dogthebear
Chicken Choker
Posts:221
Joined:Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by dogthebear » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:25 pm

Reg,
there's already going to be a great deal of "personal" taste in the judges. You have to train them on what real BBQ is,, and what qualifies as excellence. For example, is the flavor coming from the meat,, or did they just use a tastey sauce?

Cheers ,
MikeDoc

User avatar
Hippieforever99
Pit Master
Posts:1037
Joined:Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:58 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls The Honeymoon Capital Of The World
Contact:

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Hippieforever99 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:09 pm

I feel that new judges should be given some sort of guidelines on what to look for, then it is up to personal taste for sure. After all, look how many people are out there that feel ***fest serves good looking and great tasting ribs. :shock: If they only knew what good ribs were :cry: I would really love to see some classes and certification of Canadian judges. Certified in a Canadian way of looking at things. Things like how tender should a Beaver Tail be, what kind of sauces go good on Moose Tongue, and Duncans favourite, how much rub to put on a Possum. I believe it will all come in time. :wink: 8) Hippie
Personal Blog: www.bbq-is-a-way-of-life.blogspot.com


JUST LOVIN BBQ WITH A GREAT GLASS OF WINE

reg
Runner
Posts:104
Joined:Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 am
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls Ont

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by reg » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:29 pm

" You have to train them on what real BBQ is,, and what qualifies as excellence"

so what you are saying is that someone needs to tell them what BBQ is. with all due respect i totally disagree. let them (the judges) decide what BBQ is. let them decide if they like the combination of the meat ratio to the sauce ratio. let them decide what they like or dislike about that particular rib turn in. it is not up to us to lead them to any forgone conclusions. i have been to events and used reduced wine glazes then found out the judges were told that the product was not true BBQ, says who ! we don't have the right to lead the judges at all. we need to sit back and let them score the entry how they see fit, what they consider BBQ and what they consider excellent.

the way i see it is the words 'true' and 'real' have no place in establishing what BBQ is.

i don't know of another culinary competition that tells the judges what they should expect from the competitors turn in's. in this case all they need to know is that it will be ribs lol

reg

User avatar
Hippieforever99
Pit Master
Posts:1037
Joined:Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:58 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls The Honeymoon Capital Of The World
Contact:

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Hippieforever99 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:23 pm

So what you are saying here Reg is, that no one should tell a judge anything but let them believe that meat should drop off a rib bone or stick to it so much that your can barely chew it off but if it taste good it is good? When really one should be told that it should stick to the bone gently and pull away clean with a light tug. Or that a brisket that is cooked right should be tender not chewy or so dry that it falls apart. I truly believe that it comes down to personal taste in all that you eat, but on the same lines I feel that people that have never really eaten good BBQ before should be taught what is the bbq norm when it comes to texture and quality. If you do not teach to some degree then we may as well say that all the people that eat ***fest ribs and think they are great are experiencing great Q when you and I know that this is not really the case at all. 8) Hippie
Personal Blog: www.bbq-is-a-way-of-life.blogspot.com


JUST LOVIN BBQ WITH A GREAT GLASS OF WINE

reg
Runner
Posts:104
Joined:Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 am
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls Ont

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by reg » Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:52 pm

hi Hippie. these kind of discussions are perfect, i love it.

if a rib for example was so soft that the meat fell off the bone the judge should know that it is overcooked. same goes if the meat sticks to the bone and it has to be knawed off the rib is not done to perfection thats only common sense. same goes with brisket, if someone can't understand tenderness then they should take up knitting or something along those lines.

"people that have never really eaten good BBQ before should be taught what is the bbq norm" sorry buddy but i can't agree with that statement. we can't tell people what BBQ should taste like, thats a no no because we are telling/leading them by doing so. let them decide what they like and score the dish accordingly. i still like the idea Fast Eddy had a few years ago with his score sheets. best thing i ever seen.

reg

User avatar
Hippieforever99
Pit Master
Posts:1037
Joined:Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:58 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls The Honeymoon Capital Of The World
Contact:

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Hippieforever99 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:07 pm

We are almost there :) I am not saying we should teach people what BBQ should taste like. What I am trying to say is the other. Texture, tenderness and the such.
reg wrote:if a rib for example was so soft that the meat fell off the bone the judge should know that it is overcooked. same goes if the meat sticks to the bone and it has to be knawed off the rib is not done to perfection thats only common sense. same goes with brisket, if someone can't understand tenderness then they should take up knitting or something along those lines.
This is where I say that teaching/ guidance comes into play. You know as well as I that some people have no common sense and just don't know those few things that I quoted from you. This is where I feel we have to teach people to know good from bad in that area, not taste. If there was not any need for that kind of teaching, and only common sense was to prevail, then I feel that we would not see the U.S. Certifiying 10s of thousands of judges for their comps. So to teach a little without leading or dictating is where I am at. 8) Hippie
Personal Blog: www.bbq-is-a-way-of-life.blogspot.com


JUST LOVIN BBQ WITH A GREAT GLASS OF WINE

User avatar
ROXY
Pit Master
Posts:1089
Joined:Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:54 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Oro Station, ON

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by ROXY » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:23 pm

I think Hippy is spot on with what he is saying. Texture and tenderness need to be guide lined, but not taste. As there is no regional BBQ sauce flavours in Canada short of Fraft, so that field is wide open. As for what a rib should be like.. Most folks experience with ribs comes from eating ribs at franchise resto's and fall off the bone is what they advertise and serve up.

Most new judges have never tasted smoked brisket before and I would say that there is a great deal that do not know what pulled pork is either.. A couple years ago I had a on-site judge tell me, half way through his meal "this is the best pork I have ever eaten.." To bad it was a plate of brisket I set before him to judge. Digdug will remember that one.. How can that judge give a fair and honest assessment of the product I presented to him that day..?? How can he tell if it was cooked properly..?? Some of use with roots tied to the Kingdom of UK like our beef falling apart tender.

If people have never seen a smoke ring before, it need to be explained to them before hand what it is and how it got there. I think that the flavour part is up to the judge but tenderness and texture are a given when it comes to BBQ. After all we are not trying to reinvent the wheel, just reproduce it.

I for one have always felt that there needs to be training course set up for all new judges so they can get a heads up before taking part in comp judging... It was supposed to happen but now with the CBA gone the way of the dodo, dont think that will be happening any time soon.

Having been a judge in the past, I have seen and heard some things that make you shake your head. I remember judging desert at the Open a few years ago. I was presented a perfect chocolate creme brulee that was out of this world as well as a second dessert to judge that was an apple caramel cheese cake, the likes of which I would love to be able to reproduce... A lady across the table got some fruit salad in whip cream with coconut.. She squealed with delight as it was just like her mama made and announced that she gave it 100.. So how do I score the 2 excellent desserts I got against that... The sad thing is my scores were several points off perfect.

Its all fine and dandy to drag people off the street to fill a judging pool but they have to know what they are eating and how to score it.. It is only fair to those of us that spend so much hard earned money, time and effort to competing.
3 ProBBQ Frontiers
ProBBQ Excel 20
WSM with ProBBQ stacker
Chargriller Smokin Pro
2 - 50 gallon barrels awaiting conversion

reg
Runner
Posts:104
Joined:Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 am
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls Ont

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by reg » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:42 am

morning guys. well it looks like i have to give in a bit (but just a bit) as both of you have made some relevent points. obviously there is a way to get the judges a bit more on tract and it has to be done at the judges orientation meeting using a set of standards that is easy to understand. there is also a back up person, the table captain that is there to help

the point i was trying to make is that if we continue to go along like it has been done in the past we will never improve either on the cooking end or the judging end. BBQ does not have to be the same old same old, i think we are all smarter than that (well at least i hope we are)

here is a thought that could solve 'the people off the street' problem. go to the local culinary school and ask for judges. you will end up with teachers and students that will understand the guidlines the head judge is explaining. you will never have to worry about seeing any perfect scores for a fruit cup with whipped cream again.

reg

User avatar
Hippieforever99
Pit Master
Posts:1037
Joined:Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:58 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls The Honeymoon Capital Of The World
Contact:

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Hippieforever99 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:50 am

I hear ya Reg. The only thing that I would be concerned about is that if comps get there judges from a culinary school, does that mean I would have to enroll in Niagara College or Georgian College ? :wink: :cry: Getting a wee bit too old to go back to school I think. Or maybe not. 8) Hippie
Personal Blog: www.bbq-is-a-way-of-life.blogspot.com


JUST LOVIN BBQ WITH A GREAT GLASS OF WINE

reg
Runner
Posts:104
Joined:Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 am
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls Ont

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by reg » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:17 am

oh no not at all Hippie, that was just an idea for correcting a problem that we face with trying to find qualified judges. these teachers and students are in the profession because they love food period, not that we don't but they are a qualified group that has never neen asked to help (except down here)

now having said that the idea would not work for Barrie because of the $40, we all know how close teachers are ;-)

have a good one Hippie

reg

User avatar
Adrienne
Rib Rubber
Posts:450
Joined:Wed Sep 06, 2006 8:35 am
The middle number please (3):5
Contact:

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Adrienne » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:53 pm

reg wrote:now having said that the idea would not work for Barrie because of the $40, we all know how close teachers are ;-)
:lol: good one, Reg.

I like a lot of the points you have made, though - gave me a morning smile.

It would seem, however, that in the past, whomever was instructing the judges on how they are to judge passed along information which led to poor scores on perfectly good food. Information provided in judges training can taint food, even before it hits the judges palate.

Hopefully we have seen the end of that approach. It would make for a refreshing change, and allow the cook's creativity to show through!
Many thanks to sponsors supporting my team:
Traeger Canada ~ Smokinlicious Gourmet Wood Products ~ Brant Food ~ Cooshack ~ Jim Bray Trailer Sales ~ Chicago 58 ~ Hogewoning Toyota

CBJ# 39745 (there's my BBQ Goddess # Jim)

User avatar
Porky
Chicken Choker
Posts:230
Joined:Thu May 18, 2006 3:01 pm
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Brantford
Contact:

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by Porky » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:51 am

reg wrote:" emphasis on what judges may be looking for "

can you tell me who explains to the judges on what to look for ? this has always been a thorn in my a$$. even though it is just a am event why can't they just cook the ribs and let the judges choose what they like the best. setting standards for BBQ should be a no no whether amature or the so called 'pro' class.

if you all want to keep BBQ in the 60's and 70's then tell the judges what to look for, other wise let the judges choose what they like!

reg
Wow reg, seems like a knee jerk reaction there, you seem to have read way more into my post than I wrote. I can try and address each complaint in turn.
As in my original post, We will be explaining what the judges may be looking for.
As to your question "..why can't they just cook the ribs and let the judges choose what they like the best." Who said they aren't?
And as far as this one,"setting standards for BBQ should be a no no whether amature or the so called 'pro' class." you're absolutely right, everyone automatically wins first place, and there are no standards to win.

The whole point of these events is to get like minded people out to have fun. There has to be standards otherwise how do the judges score and thus award the prizes?
that's not my tan, it's bark.

www.brantfordbarbecue.com

reg
Runner
Posts:104
Joined:Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:24 am
The middle number please (3):5
Location:Niagara Falls Ont

Re: Brantford, Niagara comp info

Post by reg » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:33 am

" a knee jerk reaction there " thats another term that i have heard before and the person using it at the time was proven wrong in the long run.

I have posted some thoughts in the above discussions and will stick with those thoughts and ideas. If you want to use them fine if you don't thats fine to, they are your events.

have a good one

reg

Post Reply